Again, I get to 127 and the video stops and shows the introductory screen and will not get past 127 despite repeated attempts. Am I the only one with this problem?
To evaluate my problems, I went back and rewatched the Rodney Morris vs Elena Thorfeldt match. It loaded quickly with no viewing problems, just as it had the first time. It appears that the current problems came with the site's move. Perhaps there is some tinkering to be done.
Louis has such a solid game. Never breaks his tempo around the table and has a great overall game. I hope you guys will be covering the predator 10 ball tournament this year. It's going to have one of the strongest fields consisting of players like Efren, Orcullo, Van Boening, Archer, Bustamante, Allen Hopkins, Pagulyan... and more.... I'm drooling already
ew1075
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68.12.37.xxx
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2008-05-06 03:37:59
Both solid players, though I wouldn't recommend emulating either of their strokes. They both have an up and down motion while stroking and it looked a little funny to me.
Ulrich has a very nice break with a great follow through. I don't particularly care for how he swings the cue around to the left at the end though.
Although not a billiards instructor, I've a fairly strong physics and mechanical engineering background. It never ceases to amaze me while reading this site (and others) how many readers/viewers focus on professional players' strokes, and not on the game play itself -- i.e. the patterns played (not in relation to the rotational nature of 9- or 10-ball [there is only one object ball to initially hit on the table with the cue ball, of course], but rather to how/which side of the object ball that the pro player decided to get on for the next shot). What these players/viewers fail to realize, is that the human body is just that -- a living organism equipped with two arms, with several different types of joints, each with varying degrees of freedom of movement. The human arm is *NOT* a solenoid (http://societyofrobots.com/actuators_solenoids.shtml) or hydraulic cylinder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Hydraulic_cylinder)!
Rather, the human arm is most like a pendulum -- swinging from the elbow, or a combination of the elbow and shoulder for some players. A pendulum swings in an arc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum), and there are two high "peaks" at each end of the arc that the arm swings the cue in. Keeping in mind that the hand bridge keeps one end of the cue at a fixed point (elevation-wise), the butt end of the cue naturally follows the motion of the back arm, with a natural up and down motion that follows the natural arc created by the pendulum swing of the back arm. This translates into that up and down motion, both at the butt end of the cue, and, because the cue is mostly non-flexible, at the ferrule/tip end as well -- a motion that many of this site's readers/viewers expressed a dislike for. While opinions are good, unless one happens to be a billiards instructor with a good sound knowledge of the physics and mechanics of the game, I would recommend not taking any heed to the "don't emulate this kind of stroke" comments. (cont.)
First, this is the natural motion of the cue, if the motion were to take place purely from the elbow as always seems to be recommended in professionally written billiards instructional materials. Second, good players accept the fact that they're not a machine, but are willing to work with what they've been given -- a swinging arm vs. a solenoid or hydraulic cylinder -- and compensate accordingly. Many folks don't "like" Efren Reyes' stroke, but look at the success it's given him over the years, because he (Efren) didn't try to achieve the impossible with his stroke, but rather worked with what he's equipped with, made the most of it, and focused instead on the game itself -- how to do the magical stuff he does at the table. Apologies about the physics / mechanical engineering discussion, but after reading scores of these comments about professional players' strokes with a bend towards keeping the cue perfectly level throughout the stroke, I felt I needed to share a little of this information to remind people that the human body is NOT a machine. Accept and work with what you have -- an arm that swings in an arc, and accept the fact that this non-linear motion translates into a non-linear motion of the stick as well. Don't "force" the cue into a linear motion, because then you are breaking the natural motion of your arm, and are instead trying to "push" the stick into a linear motion -- something your swinging arm was not designed to do, and you're introducing compound movements / other muscles that shouldn't be involved in what's supposed to be a simple motion. Remember the "k.i.s.s." principle. Just don't have a sideways arc (side-to-side motion), which is certainly not the normal pendulum swing that would occur with a relaxed arm and loose grip, leveraging gravity to keep the arm perpendicular to the floor. As many classic billiard instructional materials say, "Let the cue do the work for you." Hope this is helpful info!
This topic has been discussed for a long time. The consensus is that most professional pool players have a relatively similar standard stroke. It's odd seeing someone like Mike Davis stroke a pool stick the way he does. But no one can complain about the success he has had with it. If you are trying to teach the average person how to play pool, you would want to "emulate" a Ralf Souquet or Thorsten stroke. Majority of people are going to find it hard to stroke a pool stick like Mike Davis and find success. It's true that Efren's stroke isn't the sole reason why Efren is the great legend he is now. But how many people can do the "magical stuff" Efren does? I'm sure a lot of people who watch pool don't just watch a person's stroke for 30-40 minutes . Pool fans watch pool for the pattern play, the person, the stroke, personality, tempo, shot-making ability, etc. Pool players are not machines, true! Some professional pool players shoot "different", true! But most pool players find it easy to play pool with a "standard stroke" (like a ralf souquet) than a Mike Davis.
Vince: I appreciate the comments and alternate take on this. You mention that you're sure that a lot of people who watch pool don't just watch a person's stroke for 30-40 minutes, which I'm sure is true -- I certainly agree with you there. Afterall, I'm sure most watch the play itself; what the outcome of each shot is -- e.g. did he/she make it and where's the cue ball going? But the issue is this board, and the comments posted on it, seem to indicate that at least these viewers only seem to comment on the players' strokes, indicating this is their primary concern. Not, "wow, I really like how so-and-so got on that 8-ball after that difficult shot on the 7-ball, with enough angle to ultimately get on the 10-ball." Nope, it appears to be stroke, stroke, stroke, and Mike Davis aside (he really does have such an unorthodox style worthy of comment), the consensus seems to me at least, that the readers/viewers don't like *any* up and down action on the cue at all. I hope what I'd written above helped remind folks that an arm swinging in an arc is not a linear motion, and is not conducive to a "perfect piston stroke" (as one of my misguided league friends once described it). Even Ralf and Thorsten don't have "perfect piston" strokes -- view their stroke from in front, and you'll see that up and down motion as well, although not as pronounced as a player with a freer, more relaxed style such as Louis Ulrich. Anyway, here *I* go into an extended discussion about stroke, something I didn't intend for in the first place! Let's change the subject -- what do you guys think about the "patterns" that Louis played? (Keep in mind that yes, I know there is only one "pattern" in rotational games like 9-/10-ball -- the lowest-numbered ball on the table is the object ball. What I'm referring to is how Louis got on each shot, and the cue ball action he used to do it.)
My apologies. I wasn't aware that my comment regarding a players stroke would offend viewers.
Though I pay particular attention to pattern play, applied english, break shots, etc, the 2 things that jumped out at me the most in this video was the stroking patterns and Ulrich's break follow through. Naturally, that became the subject of my post. I think your assumption that viewers are only analyzing players' strokes is way off, and based largely on ignorance. Thus rendering your long-winded posts unnecessary.
I also am in heavy disagreement with your take on a proper stroke. This is neither the time nor the place to argue, so I will leave it at that.
Ew1075, is this really necessary? Opinions are always welcome on a comment board, it's the purpose for the very existence of the board afterall. However, personal attacks aren't. I wasn't attacking you specifically by any means; in fact, I wasn't attacking anyone. I merely wanted to remind folks that of the lion's share of the comments I've seen which focused on stroke, that the "up and down" motion of the cue is quite natural with an arm that swings in an arc, and there's more to the game than just the aesthetics of the stroke. It was actually intended to be a constructive post. Looking back, about the only thing I might've done wrong was to "reply" to your post specifically, rather than post it in the root hierarchy of the comment listing as a generic post. For that faux pas only, you have my personal apologies. But I stand behind the content of what I write. Like you said, this is neither the time or the place to argue this, so rather than participate in your parting-shot name calling, I'll just take the high road, and instead bid you a friendly adieu, with the hopes that our next interaction will be much more positive. Play hard, and enjoy!
It's not even Mike Davis's stroke that makes him look so queer, it's his gross inverted elbow and his sissy glove. I can't stand to watch him play, ever. I'm his number one anti-fan.
Again that discussion about the players' strokes.(I had it on that site before about an other match....) Is it really a crime to say that we like or don't like Efren, Ralph or Louis stroke? There's something aesthetic in a stroke, are we allowed to say just "yes that one is beautifull" or "no that one isn't that pretty" whitout offending anyone?
This actually the first thing i look at when i watch a player. Am i abnormal?
Now, if someone wants to talk about the patterns,or to do any other comments about the match itself, this is great! Give the good example, and start writting about the patterns...
I'
d rather see a glove than talc all over the cloth.
I agree. Talc or baby powder is the most annoying thing ever to see on a pool table. I'd rather see my opponent shoot with a hot pink glove than see that. Not to mention it makes the table look horrible.
Jim
actionlouie
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stroke it!
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70.16.179.xxx
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2008-05-11 08:49:01
After reading the comment board I must say fundamentals are whats important when it comes to stroke. Follow through,staying down,etc.
You need to do what feels right. Experiment with other techniques, find what works for you. If you ever seen Mike's stroke from an overhead view it's perfectly straight, which is all you can ask for. Also his follow through is just like anyone else. Results are what matters.Just because it aint pretty does'nt mean he won't take all you're cabbage! I've seen Mike play much better than this. He's a heck of a nice guy too. I have'nt beat him in a tournament yet.
Actionlouie, I think you nailed it, in a way in which apparently I failed to do so. Fundamentals are most certainly more important than the "prettiness" or "correctness" of the stroke. As long as from an overhead view, your cue looks like a laser, traveling in a perfectly straight line to the target, you can't ask for better. If one watches the Accu-Stats videos (I have a large collection), there are many overhead camera shots, and most of the players whose strokes have been negatively commented-upon by PPV viewers, have perfectly straight travel of the cue from an overhead camera angle. As you say, results are what matters; patterns, making the shot and controlling the cue is certainly where it's at, related to "taking all your cabbage" (well-put, btw).
If it lends any credibility to what I'm going to say, I happen to be a BCA certified pool instructor. Although it is true that one can't argue with results, there are many sound reasons why certain fundamentals in pool are so. The reason why limiting movement to below the elbow is essential is to limit the number of muscle groups involved in the stroke to 2, biceps and triceps. When you start to drop the elbow, you then involve the shoulder, neck, chest, and back. So many more things can go wrong at the moment of contact. It's also very true that in the traditional "pendulum" stroke, the grip hand as well as the cue tip do travel up and down if the elbow is in a fixed position as it should be. The key idea here is that the cue is "as level as possible" at the moment of contact, what we refer to as the "set position". After contact, the cue tip will indeed travel downward, often ending up on the cloth. A good, reliable pool stroke is founded in simplicity and consistency. When all sorts of extra quirks and nuances are introduced, this often causes mistakes. This is not to say that a pool instructor's job is to crank out pool robots. By showing proper fundamentals and clearly explaining their purpose, it gives the student an educated opinion from which to build their own "style" so to speak. Admittedly, I have a few quirks in my own stroke, but I'm aware of them and understand the effect they have on my game. Ultimately, it's true that the cue ball doesn't really care what your stroke looks like, only where it's hit and how hard. Top level players often have a very high natural aptitude for the game and can do very well with an "instinctual" style of play. It's often the players that have both the natural talent and the discipline to focus on proper form who become world beaters (Souquet, Fischer, Hohmann, Sigel, etc.)
There's no denying the genuis of an Efren Reyes or a Keith McCready, but that's something that will rarely translate well to a novice. In my opinion, keep the stroke comments coming. There's nothing wrong with saying that this stroke is pretty, or that one looks awkward or jerky. I happen to be one of those people who looks more at the player than at the balls on the table. I like to see what they are doing to make the balls move as they do. Happy Shooting.
The reason why limiting movement to below the elbow is essential is to limit the number of muscle groups involved in the stroke to 2, biceps and triceps. When you start to drop the elbow, you then involve the shoulder, neck, chest, and back.
Thanks for the explanation straightshooter.
@+
Gypo
chalktalk
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72.175.136.xxx
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2008-05-16 00:47:56
I've been around the game for thirty plus years and in that time I have seen beautiful strokes and quirky strokes. More than anything else it depends on the individual player and where they are comfortable at. I've seen 2 local guys in my home town with a horrid stroke take Jimmy Caras for $1000.00. While I strongly agree that a proper stroke and good fundamentals are invaluable I have seen where they aren't a necessity.
hello people you all need to stop arguing over this!!
And secondly can i get a shooting percentage for louis please i only saw him 3 or 4 times maybe that i am aware of. So thereforew i have to respect that mans game for what he can do it with what hes got.
This pool stroke issue looks like its going to be around a while soooo I might as well get my 2 cents worth. Pool is a results oriented sport. You are rewarded for winning your game set or match. Gymnastics on the other hand is a technique oriented sport. You are rewarded for how well you executed a routine, set against a set of parameters and those parameters are judged the same for all competitors. I haven't seen a pool game yet that went to the player with the smoothest, most coordinated, or prettiest stroke. The game went to the player who sunk the 9 ball or 10 ball or reached the goal of the game first. So unless pool has become a component of gymnastics, if you don't hit the spot you are aiming at, you won't make the ball. Lets all try for a perfect 10 and enjoy the videos. Best of rolls to you all.
Why is there a 10-30 second delay between every shot?? I have dsl and the video is behaving like dial up. I'm not spending 2 hours to watch a race to 7.
one mans junk is another mans treasure, have you ever noticed, we all tend to like the pool player whom shoots most like us, or what kind of style we aim for? I'm not trying to jump in something here, but it wouldn't hurt to have less elbow movement as possible, but it would probably hurt mike davis' game if he half way down his pool career he decides to start from scratch... if it aint broke... don't fix it...
7 and the video stops and shows the introductory screen and will not get past 12
. Pool fans watch pool for the pattern play, the person, the stroke, personality, tempo, shot-making ability, etc. Pool players are not machines, true! Some professional pool players shoot "different", true! But most pool players find it easy to play pool with a "standard stroke" (like a ralf souquet) than a Mike Davis. 
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